of Winston-Salem, NC
Established in 1957

EXTRAORDINARY TALENT
Dr. Fred Tanner Performs, Teaches & Composes Variety of Music

Dr. Fred Tanner began his musical career as a young child in the 1940s as a member of the famed Tanner Family of Winston-Salem. His older brothers John and Eugene went on to become lead singers in the “Five Royales” ,considered one of the most influential groups in the history of rock and soul. [1] Dr. Tanner has had a more behind-the-scenes musical life, but also an enormously influential one. Over the years, he has sung, played, taught, composed, arranged, produced, and conducted classical, jazz, pop and gospel music.

After retiring as Dean of Arts and Sciences from Winston-Salem State University, Dr. Tanner currently conducts the venerable community singing group, The Twin City Choristers. The Choristers will perform their annual Christmas Concert at 4:00pm on November 26, 2006, the Sunday after Thanksgiving, at The Arts Council Theater (610 Coliseum Drive, 27106) in Winston-Salem. Admission is free.

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You come from a very musical family. What are your strongest musical memories about your parents and your brothers?
They go way way back. I guess I must have been three or four years old. My parents were vocalists. And, we had a singing family—The Tanner Family—my father and my mother, and there were four boys. John the oldest did not participate because he was not there the time we formed that group. My dad was a soloist for a long time, and I guess as the boys grew up, we became part of the singing performance. My dad had a radio program. I think he had the first commercially sponsored program in North Carolina. I think it was sponsored by North Carolina Mutual Insurance Company. It was on WSJS in the early '40s. He’d come on the radio every evening, and people would tell us how they’d stop what they were doing to go to the radio to listen to him.

Did your dad become your role model?
Yes, in so many ways. My dad taught me about living and about being trustworthy and about loyalty. Those kind of things I tried to teach my students. He had a strong faith. I admired him more than anyone I can think of. We didn’t have much, but he gave me more than money could have bought me.

Did you play piano at the time your dad had his radio show on WSJS in the '40s?
My dad always had a piano in the house. So, I guess I learned to play the piano by ear. I would sing in church and play at an early early age, I suppose even before I started school. And I didn’t really realize what was happening very much because I just know that they would call upon me to perform, and I would perform, and the people would applaud and I would cry. My mother would say, “No, they like you.” . . . When the boys got together and formed the Tanner [Family] singing group, we did church performances and concerts and programs. So, I grew up every Sunday having a performance, in the surrounding areas, in Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina.

Would the Tanner Family perform during the church service or afterwards?
Afterwards. We’d have a four o’clock performance or an eight o’clock in the evening performance. We would sing a cappella, quartet of course, and we’d sing gospel music. It was similar to the Jacksons or the Osmonds, but it was gospel music. We’d all sing parts . . . It was just a family performance . . . My oldest brother John was singing in a gospel group, as well, the Royal Sons, and he would come to teach us everything they were going to sing. Everything they learned, he’d come to teach it to us, and we’d sing it. Later on, I guess I strayed and went to school and wanted to learn to play an instrument. I’m the only instrumentalist out of the family.

What was your musical training going through the Winston-Salem public schools?
I was at Kimberly Park Elementary School, and they were forming a school band way back in the '50s. I graduated in '54. So, I guess between '50 and '54. Mr. Bernard Foy started the band program. He was a very young man. And Miss Lucy Sheffey was the vocal person at that school, and they were screening students for band participation, and they gave music aptitude tests to determine who they were going to issue instruments to based on the test. I took the test, did well on it. A lot of the test was based on hearing and discriminating between pitches and that kind of thing, and having grown up in a family where I was singing and doing parts. I had no problem with that. I wanted to play the trumpet.

When I started to play the trumpet, a lot of the singing kind of left. We still did the singing, but I was more interested in the instrument than the singing part. We sang so much, it was exciting, but it was like, “Oh no, we’ve got to do another performance.” . . . Of course, the community knew about our family. And amusingly enough, some of the groups like the Winston-Salem Chamber or civic groups, when they had meetings, they would get us out of school to come to perform for luncheons. I remember performing at the old Robert E. Lee Hotel. I remember getting out of school...to do luncheon performances with my brothers, and then I’d go back to Kimberly Park School.

Where did you go to high school?
I went to Atkins High School. I carried the trumpet with me, and Mr. Harry Wheeler was the band director. He and Mr. Bernard Foy were very good friends, and they played in a jazz group, the Royal Sultans. I went to high school and studied with Harry Wheeler. He did so much for me. Bernard Foy had given me the foundation, and when I got to high school, they put me on the spot. I got a little scholarship. They gave me an award. It was the Maude Anderson Award. It was for one of the teachers at Kimberly Park, and it was just a few dollars. The summer before I enrolled in high school, there was a summer band program, and I used the award to pay for tuition to study in that program with Mr. Wheeler. As a result, he put me in first chair trumpet when I got [to Atkins], and I had a lot of pressure on me. I had no trouble playing, but I’d never been one to be out front, and I didn’t like a lot of attention.

I got pretty good training at Atkins. He [Harry Wheeler] nurtured a lot of students, after hours . . . I remember when I went to lots of colleges for auditions and for testing for financial aid, for scholarships. I had come back from Baldwin-Wallace and I told Mr. Wheeler that I’d certainly like to go there. There was a good program there, and I wanted to get a head start in music theory. There were several of his students who planned to go away to college to major in music. All of us got together and said we need some theory training, so Mr. Wheeler gave us theory training after hours, which enabled me to be prepared when I went to Baldwin-Wallace a bit more than I would have been.

What was your music training in college?
I went to Baldwin-Wallace College in Berea Ohio, and majored in music education. I received a B.M.E. degree in music education with the trumpet specialization. There was a conservatory there. The school is much larger now. But there were about 200 conservatory students then . . . Very, very talented people. My eyes were opened tremendously when I saw all the talent there and I had trouble competing. But by the time I left there, I was doing pretty well.

What did you do after graduating college?
After I graduated from Baldwin-Wallace, I had a strong interest in jazz and wanted to perform jazz. So, I went to New York. I had an uncle there. My family followed me after graduation, and they [did] sort of like a sit-in. They waited me out until I came home. They didn’t want me to stay in New York, so they persuaded me to come back. So I came back to Winston and I started to teach in the public school system . . . I took the music education track at Baldwin Wallace because I wanted to have the teaching capability. Performing was very difficult, especially if you were looking for symphonic work. I thought until I could break through, I could teach. I saw so many students come back who had done a pure music degree to get the music education degree because they could not find adequate, stable living just with the music degree.

And graduate school?
During the time I was teaching, I went to graduate school. I went in the summers and got my Masters of Arts at Columbia in New York . . . During the summers, I did meet a lot of nice people and I did get a chance to perform with Donald Byrd some of the top jazz musicians who were up there. I caught up with Colleridge T. Perkinson. We did a jazz summer program one summer and that helped financially. We would be performing all over town. It was like the jazz mobile . . . I did trumpet and did vocal work, too. Yes, surprisingly my vocal training came back to help. I also performed in clubs, not so much in New York as I did in Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Charlotte, High Point and those surrounding areas. Bill Bright and I formed a group . . . The Blenders.

Did you get to know your uncle in New York very well?
Yes. He was really my favorite uncle. Even when I was in undergraduate school, on break, I would go there and stay with him and I just liked the New York scene. I would always want to go the Birdland or the Village Vanguard or the Village Gate. I was always taking every opportunity to go to the jazz clubs when I could to hear the jazz greats . . . such as the original Count Basie band . . . Freddie Hubbard . . . John Coltrane.

During the school year, when you were back in Winston-Salem, what grade level did you teach music?
At the junior high and elementary level . . . I was based at East Winston Junior High, which later became Kennedy.

Were you inspired by Bernard Foy and Harry Wheeler, your former music teachers?
Yes. I worked with them when I came back. They were still working. And I had an opportunity to perform with them. When they wanted someone to sit in with the Royal Sultans, every now and then they’d call me and say, “Can you do this gig tonight?”

What were the jazz and R&B scenes like at that point in the Winston-Salem area in the early '60s?
R&B was very strong. Before I left to go to college, R&B was very strong. When I got back, I got into the jazz scene. R&B was still happening, but I was more interested in the jazz scene, and I played in Bill Bright’s group and with a lot of Greensboro musicians who were just super musicians. I wish some of the young musicians could have heard those people play . . . In Greensboro at the Carlotta Supper Club, the El Rocco Supper Club, at places like that. They would have jazz night. Jimmy Davis was an excellent piano player. Melvin Smith was an excellent trumpet player. We pushed each other very much. Al Doctor was an excellent saxophone player.

After you got your masters at Columbia, how long did you continue in the Winston-Salem public schools?
I taught for seven years, then I went to Winston-Salem State [University]. I went back to graduate school after I was employed at Winston-Salem State.

Where did you go back to graduate school?
I went back to New York. I received three degrees from Columbia—the M.A., Master of Arts, and M.Ed., the Master of Education, and the Ed.D., the doctorate of education . . . The Ed. D. was [in] college teaching and administration of music education.

At Winston-Salem State, were you doing music education and administration?
I did music education for a long time. I didn’t get into administration until the mid eighties… When I first went there in 1969, I was band director with Robert Shepherd, and we both were doing graduate work in the summers and working toward our doctorates . . . Winston-Salem State was responsible for my getting my [doctorate] degree, because they did allow me paid leave, they supported me. I did stage band, I did marching band. Robert Shepherd did concert band. We decided to split up, because we were teaming on everything and said, “Wouldn’t it be wiser to say you take this one and I’ll take that one?” So, I had marching band and the stage band.

What and where did the stage band perform?
We played jazz and pop music. We toured. Our alumni at the school were very supportive. They sponsored tours for us to take just about every year, especially the New Jersey-New York chapter. So, we spent a lot of time performing in those areas, and we’d perform basically at elementary and junior high and high schools. The alumni chapters were responsible for arranging the tours. We’d do that at spring break just about every year. And then we’d play an alumni dance on the weekend maybe. We did get an honorarium at each school for playing. The Title I Program for Cultural Development sponsored us, and we were able to finance most of the tour through our performance.

What courses did you teach at Winston-Salem State?
I taught some of everything. Of course, I taught band I taught brass instruments, like trumpet, trombone, tuba. I just about taught every course there—Survey of Music Literature, Music History. I didn’t do much theory teaching, but I taught orchestration arranging, instrumentation—methods courses. When I was in the public schools, I had some string training, so I taught beginning stringed instruments.

Who are some of your students who graduated and are still active in the music scene in the Winston-Salem area today?
When I first went there, James Funches was there. Galvin Crisp. Emory Jones. He was the band director [at WSSU] later on . . . He just retired . . . Bill Sharp. He’s out west now playing. He was here not long ago. I think he was playing with Cher . . . He also just performed with Jeffrey Osborne at the Big Four reunion [Atkins, Paisley, Carver and Anderson High Schools in Winston-Salem] . . . Daryl Robinson. I just left Atlantic City last year where I saw him performing at the Tropicana. He’s the band director at Atlantic City High School . . . So many I would be afraid to name them all. . . Keith Byrd . . . Adrian Swygert; he’s a vocalist. He sings with the [Twin City] Choristers. I didn’t teach Chris Murrell, but we did a lot of work together.

Tell us about the singing group you currently conduct, “The Twin City Choristers”.
The Twin City Choristers is a group that was established by Permilla Dunston, and next October The Choristers will be celebrating their 50th anniversary. Dr. Dunston was a music educator, and eventually she became the chair of the music department [at Winston-Salem State] while I was there and was very instrumental in my going back to graduate school. She supported me, and she still supports the group. We’re planning a special performance for that anniversary which will be next October, and we’re hoping that she will able to take part. [Sadly, Dr. Dunston passed on shortly after this interview.] The Choristers are men who enjoy singing. They’re not all professional musicians. Their training is very varied a variety of backgrounds there. We have legal persons, we have medical doctors, we have bankers and accountants and we have a retired sheriff.

How did you get involved with “The Choristers”?
It’s a funny thing. They had a director at the time who had been interested in going back to pursue an advanced degree. John Young, the president of The Choristers called me to se if I would come in and do a short stint with them until their director got back. I said, “Let me consider it.” Well it turned out that the director did not come back, and I stayed on.

How many performances do“The Choristers” do every year and where do you perform?
We perform in churches mostly, but we perform for a number of events. We performed for MLK Celebration at the [Benton] Convention Center [in downtown Winston-Salem]. We do an annual performance at Grace Presbyterian Church every year on the Sunday before the holiday. We performed at Christmas at Reynolda House. We usually do concerts, two annually . . . That’s the Christmas Concert and then we do a general concert. Most of our performances are at the request of church organizations.

What type of music do “The Choristers” mostly perform?
We do spirituals, a few contemporary gospel pieces. We do some classical pieces. We do Brahms and Handel and Mozart, and then we do Harry T. Burleigh, Wendell Whalum, spirituals . . . We have done some show tunes, but generally do church music. But we have done “Climb Every Mountain”, “You’ll Never Walk Alone”, those kinds of things.

Tell us about “The Choristers” upcoming holiday concert at the Arts Council Theater.
We do an annual Christmas Concert. Since I’ve been conducting, it’s been done at the Sawtooth Center. I’ve only been with the group for about five years or so. We outgrew the Sawtooth building, and last year we held it at the Little Theater [Arts Council Theater]. We had a tremendous audience last year. We don’t know how long we’ll be able to stay there because our audiences are continuously growing.

What are one or two of the most memorable experiences of your life as a musician and a music educator?
There are so many. As a music educator it has to be student oriented. I’ve dedicated my service to helping students. [I] see students go away [to pursue music or other careers]. I’ve seen so many students do very well, and some of the ones you thought never listened to you, they cone back and say, “I really benefited by what you said.” Those are good times . . . I had a student who was not necessarily a music student but who worked at CNN . . . and has been working at CNN for quite a while now. Came back one summer and said, “Man something that you said to me really really helped. You told me how good it was to be prompt.” Those kind of things, they’re things that just kind of stand out.

We did a European tour with the group [stage band], and that was one of the highlights. Played in Paris, went to five countries, London…That was in the early seventies…That was a good time. There were other chances that I’ve had to meet people and to develop friendships, and those kinds of things, from a professional standpoint, were good for me. Teaching is what I really enjoy. Of course, when I went into administration I didn’t have many opportunities to teach.

What memories stand out in your mind in terms of performance?
There are memories that I have [of when] I did music productions for recordings. I did some producing of records when I was in public school and a little while when I was at the University level, and some of those experiences were good. Working in studios in New York and hearing some of the things I’d done on radio. I arranged the music, wrote the songs, produced the record. [Another] highlight was when I was commissioned to do a work for the opening of the Scales Center at Wake Forest [University]. They performed one of my pieces. I wrote a brass quintet . . . I’ve been composing as long as I can remember.

What was it like when you older brothers John and Eugene became national celebrities with the Five Royales during the early Soul period?
Interesting . . . I always enjoyed being behind the scenes. Of course, they were in the spotlight a lot. I enjoyed writing the music and producing the music rather than performing the music, although I did jazz performance, but in terms of recording and those sorts of things. I think that during the time they [Five Royales] were singing, we took a lot of things for granted. We didn’t really know the significance of what they were doing. We just kind of said, “Oh, yeah, right, sure.” We were proud to hear them sing and all that, but we didn’t know the impact that they were making.

You didn’t realize they were having an impact of the subsequent Soul sound?
No, we did not. We really did not.

It must have seemed like a continuation of what you had been singing in churches, just with secular lyrics.
In many ways it was. What they were doing, I’d heard before. It was new to a lot of other people. But I’d been hearing that all my life.

And you had been performing that style of music with the Tanner Family?
Yes, but you know as I’ve gotten older I realize how important that was. You never know until afterwards.

Looking to the future, what do you think the years ahead hold for music and music education in the Winston-Salem area?
I’ve been very impressed, of course, this is my home, but when you go away and see other things, you realize what you have at home and you realize that this is an arts- oriented community. I can not ever see this community without the arts playing a significant part in the life of its citizens. It’s just a way of life for us. I can’t see a future without it. With the support that this community has gained and with groups like Carolina Music Ways and the things that we are doing here to promote the music in this area, I can only see positive things. I can’t imagine this community without music and the arts.

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[1] Dave Marsh, The Heart of Rock and Soul (New York: Da Capo Books, 1999), p.284.

Interview conducted October 23, 2006, in Winston-Salem by Elizabeth Carlson of Carolina Music Ways Music Heritage Resource Group, a non-profit arts organization based in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.